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 Post subject:Re: List of general ideas by me and others for Ceberus
PostPosted:Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:52 am 
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That is possible, but I suppose the feasibility can only be determined later.


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 Post subject:Re: List of general ideas by me and others for Ceberus
PostPosted:Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:32 pm 
 

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Basically behaving like git. Each client has the state of the entire system. The problem with that is trust. A player can hack the game (wow, hacking a game all about hacking) and edit their own stats or other player's stats, and who is to say who's right and who's wrong.

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 Post subject:Re: List of general ideas by me and others for Ceberus
PostPosted:Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:07 am 
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That's why your profile (the encrypted version) is stored and saved on your own machine. The only thing that's p2p'd is the game traffic.

I'm pretty sure there's an anti-cheat shield system possible, just like they've been doing for online games for the last ... how many years?


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 Post subject:Re: List of general ideas by me and others for Ceberus
PostPosted:Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:13 am 
 

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He has a point there. Your entire security is based on the security of your profile.

But meh - it's a game. If someone goes to the trouble of hacking the game, he has bigger issues.


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 Post subject:Re: List of general ideas by me and others for Ceberus
PostPosted:Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:59 pm 
Literally Nine
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But meh - it's a game. If someone goes to the trouble of hacking the game, he has bigger issues.
You'd be surprised at how debilitating cheaters can become to a game, especially in a multiplayer context. Accusations of cheating become rampant, bans start being served like mad, and the community withers.

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 Post subject:Re: List of general ideas by me and others for Ceberus
PostPosted:Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:25 pm 
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But meh - it's a game. If someone goes to the trouble of hacking the game, he has bigger issues.
You'd be surprised at how debilitating cheaters can become to a game, especially in a multiplayer context. Accusations of cheating become rampant, bans start being served like mad, and the community withers.

yeah and really, some of my friends cheat every now and then in games like call of duty and are really obvious about it but don't care one bit, they get banned they hack them a un-ban (I really don't know how they do it but they do), and then they just in games like call of duty, just don't care and on the forums post how to hack and everything. The communities with hackers really do suffer because of the fact that people don't want to play a game where people have a clear advantage over others.

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 Post subject:Re: List of general ideas by me and others for Ceberus
PostPosted:Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:46 pm 
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But meh - it's a game. If someone goes to the trouble of hacking the game, he has bigger issues.
You'd be surprised at how debilitating cheaters can become to a game, especially in a multiplayer context. Accusations of cheating become rampant, bans start being served like mad, and the community withers.
Good point there - made all the more important since we're dealing with a game in which you, well, hack. Lol.

Maybe design a public key system? Have the profile encrypted by a public key, which can only be unlocked for online play with 2 keys - one generated and stored locally at profile creation, and another stored at Cerberus' server.

This means you can't play locally to "build up" your profile before going online, but hey, it's another loophole closed.

(Yes, I know this means you can't play online if the main server is down. But think about that again before you say it.)

Ultimately, it would be nice to actively challenge other players online. Onlink by itself is rather, well, boring. Security system after security system, mission after mission, hack after hack. It's why I dropped Uplink in the first place.


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 Post subject:Re: List of general ideas by me and others for Ceberus
PostPosted:Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:48 am 
 

Joined:Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:20 am
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Then again, it comes to the point of needing to know of the architecture.

If you're having a central server, then sure, that would work. But if you're going to lock your profile and only make it unlockable by the server, why not simply store the profile on the server, and send it to the client when needed? After all, there's only one game world.

If we're going to P2P it, however, security becomes much harder. All the nodes are trusted/secured to the same degree (contrast to the server/client, where you could most probably trust the server), and how do you prevent tampering?


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 Post subject:Re: List of general ideas by me and others for Ceberus
PostPosted:Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:12 pm 
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No no, you're misinterpreting. The server does nothing more than unlock profiles and co-ordinate who's online (like they use for DEFCON, or bittorrent trackers).

Storing a profile on the server is silly (if it crashes, you lose a profile. If your PC crashes, the profile's the thing you're least-worrying about). Storing it locally but using it for online play is silly too, if the profile can be hacked.

Burdening a single server with the traffic is a bad idea. Building a static universe with a *very* lightweight conversation protocol and funding the thing by means of a paying userbase, well, that's a good direction. Whether or not Ferrous Moon takes it is another story.

Back on topic: You want people to be able to play online fairly without (for the moment) relying on a single server, while making the entire system as secure and fair as possible. I think my scenario has a fair shot at working, really - plus it circumvents the need to write what must be cumbersome anti-cheat software.

(Added bonus: Replacing the server is as hassle free as possible, if you don't need to import user profile data.)


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 Post subject:Re: List of general ideas by me and others for Ceberus
PostPosted:Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:15 am 
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[rewritingthebible]Well now, I know you guys are all hot on the discussion about online Cerberus, but I'm gonna talk about some ideas I had for useless cash expenses (I love games where you can buy things to enhance your gaming experience rather than just getting stronger, like the in-game IRC client). Also, of course, this would only be if you guys don't care about the final filesize of the game (I doubt it will ever reach 1gb anyway...). Nuff said, there you go:

- New music (the player would start with the default music set, and would have to buy new music if he wanted them);

- New graphics ("skins"), and I mean lots of them, including themes ressembling old dos systems, or windows xp/vista/7, MACs, you name it;

- Things like the interface of the programs. For instance: there are 2 versions of an specific program (be it bought ready for use or ordered from a specialized company, doesn't matter now). One costs, let's say, 40k, and is completely funcional, but looks awful, and is even a bit hard to understand until you get used to it. The other one costs a lot more - 60k - but has a cool interface, easier to use and with nice graphics.

- Other random stuff, not much if we think of Onlink, but I'm pretty sure Cerberus will open up a whole new set of possibilities.

Of course, there would be hidden content, like skins and musics you have to find/get awarded with. Also, the player could always hack the server selling this stuff, but I hope that in Cerberus servers like Uplink Internal Services are waaaay harder to hack! :classy:
Hell, why not the ability to actually just copy the buyable software from uplink/other companies when you hack admin? Of course, you would only deserve that IF you actually managed to hack them so soon in the game that you have much to copy... (but this would also make the decision between those two software pieces, 40k and 60k, a bit harder to make...)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On a complete different subject, I was playing Tony Hawk 2 yesterday (on my ps1!). In that game, for each different charachter you complete the game with, you gain access to a "cheat". And if you beat them all, you can access special content.

So, what does this have to do with Cerberus? I thought of two possibilities:

-Different endings: depending on important storyline missions, and on your overall behaviour, you get a different ending (of course, by "ending" I mean the storyline end, as the infinite play is awesome). For each different ending, you get a special feature (it could either make beating the game with different endings easier, like in Tony Hawk 2, or make it harder but with twists, like getting the chain saw or the alien blaster in Silent Hill).

-A total change in the game, where you would play as pre-existent charachters, instead of being yourself. Each charachter would have his own traits, making gameplay different, and you would get something different at the end of each charachter's storyline. Although I thought of this, I hate this idea myself, as it would partially destroy the reallistic feel that Cerberus is probably dragging from Onlink.[/rewritingthebible]


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One more thing: Tycho, shouldn't it be "The vIcinity of an area adjacent to a location.", instead of "The vAcinity of an area adjacent to a location."? Or was it proposital/I am wrong? (After all, this is NOT my mother tongue... :mrgreen:)

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 Post subject:Re: List of general ideas by me and others for Ceberus
PostPosted:Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:30 pm 
Literally Nine
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One more thing: Tycho, shouldn't it be "The vIcinity of an area adjacent to a location.", instead of "The vAcinity of an area adjacent to a location."? Or was it proposital/I am wrong? (After all, this is NOT my mother tongue... :mrgreen:)
Shocking. My world belief system has been shattered. Thanks, fucker. D:

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 Post subject:Re: List of general ideas by me and others for Ceberus
PostPosted:Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:34 pm 
Literally Nine
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Shocking. My world belief system has been shattered. Thanks, fucker. D:
Uh oh. Cerberus is over. D:


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 Post subject:Re: List of general ideas by me and others for Ceberus
PostPosted:Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:38 pm 
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Shocking. My world belief system has been shattered. Thanks, fucker. D:
now, THAT was an unexpected answer! :mrgreen:

glad to see I was the right one at least for ONCE... :classy:

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 Post subject:Re: List of general ideas by me and others for Ceberus
PostPosted:Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:41 pm 
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Quote:
Shocking. My world belief system has been shattered. Thanks, fucker. D:
Uh oh. Cerberus is over. D:

awe...

*cries a sleep at the thought*

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 Post subject:Re: List of general ideas by me and others for Ceberus
PostPosted:Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:44 pm 
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Shocking. My world belief system has been shattered. Thanks, fucker. D:
Uh oh. Cerberus is over. D:
Oh noes

OH NOES

what have I done!!!!!!!

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