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 Post subject:Re: I'm Back!
PostPosted:Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:17 am 
Literally Nine
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Though to be fair, the earlier games did morally grey better. Fallout 3 suffered from the "saint or psycho" issue that most modern games' morality systems have.
That's a really good point. I couldn't put my finger on _why_ I didn't like the morality system, but that makes perfect sense. There are so many things in the game that are very clearly either morally wrong or morally right, but none that are gray areas.

I think Bioshock pulled of the morality thing much better.

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 Post subject:Re: I'm Back!
PostPosted:Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:27 am 
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That's a really good point. I couldn't put my finger on _why_ I didn't like the morality system, but that makes perfect sense. There are so many things in the game that are very clearly either morally wrong or morally right, but none that are gray areas.
Yeah, their idea of morally gray is "do something good, but ask for money."
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I think Bioshock pulled of the morality thing much better.
I never played Bioshock, but wasn't its main moral choice kill the sisters or get power, or save them and get power anyway?

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 Post subject:Re: I'm Back!
PostPosted:Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:27 am 
Literally Nine
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I think Bioshock pulled of the morality thing much better.
I never played Bioshock, but wasn't its main moral choice kill the sisters or get power, or save them and get power anyway?
No, it was kill the sisters to get MORE power than if you saved them.

Also, Bioshock was, in the words of yahtzee, still a choice of mother teresa or baby eating.


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 Post subject:Re: I'm Back!
PostPosted:Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:42 am 
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I think Bioshock pulled of the morality thing much better.
I never played Bioshock, but wasn't its main moral choice kill the sisters or get power, or save them and get power anyway?
No, it was kill the sisters to get MORE power than if you saved them.
But I think that eventually you ended up getting a shitton of power if you saved them anyway as a reward later in the game.

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 Post subject:Re: I'm Back!
PostPosted:Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:57 pm 
Literally Nine
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I never played Bioshock, but wasn't its main moral choice kill the sisters or get power, or save them and get power anyway?
No, it was kill the sisters to get MORE power than if you saved them.
But I think that eventually you ended up getting a shitton of power if you saved them anyway as a reward later in the game.
Sure maybe. Truth be told, I never actually played it :classy:


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 Post subject:Re: I'm Back!
PostPosted:Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:34 pm 
 

Joined:Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:41 am
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Personally I think one of the best morality systems ever implemented in anything ever is real life. Its cool because the other day I ate these two sisters and claimed all of their power for myself! Then I killed someone to join a Dark Brotherhood of assassins. Then me and Jim Raynor joined the Sons of Korhal to help Anakin save his wife Padme from certain death using the power of the Sith. Only after this was all accomplished was Butch from Vault 101 able to give me a haircut.

I should stop drinking before noon.


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 Post subject:Re: I'm Back!
PostPosted:Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:36 pm 
 

Joined:Mon May 29, 2006 6:11 pm
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I've not even got far enough into Bioshock to harvest a little sister yet.

It's not 'cus it's a crap game or anything, it's just that when it comes to games I crap myself way too easy. If you were to design a game specifically to scare me, Bioshock actually fits every criteria. Between the atmosphere, creepy enemies, fantastic art direction and most of all, quality sound and perfectly creepy music is a game I just can't play 'cus I get the willies almost immediately. I'll get around to it someday.

As for FO3's morality, it was a little dodgy. I'd go into a city like Rivet or Megaton, rob them blind then walk outside and give water to the dude who is ALWAYS there, and i'd be saint again.

Post-2000 games that weren't super big releases that were great for me, would be probably topped by Vietcong. If you haven't played it, you owe it to yourself to try it. Aside from some buggy AI, it was an incredibly competent shooter, with great squad controls for the time and some very memorable missions and set pieces, a great narrative (None of the whole plonking you into missions thing; you had a base camp you could explore and go on the shooting range etc, and from there you'd get your mission briefings and sometimes have to defend it). On top of that, completing missions unlocks new weapons and special scenarios you can set up how you want, with what weapons, amount of enemies, what squad mates you get, and you could also do that with all the story missions you completed.

Damn, that game owned.

"Console Tards"

I throw that phrase out because I hate that a lot of games have been ruined because of devs making the game for console and either making a crappy pc port, or toning down the gameplay to it's detriment. Some games manage to keep a good line between the two (Example; Battlefield 2 on PC, and Battlefield; Bad Company which was essentially Fisher Price Battlefield). Some games don't, like Call of Duty, which started to go down the crapper when it was decide consolers needed to play it too.


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 Post subject:Re: I'm Back!
PostPosted:Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:55 am 
 

Joined:Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:49 pm
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I throw that phrase out because I hate that a lot of games have been ruined because of devs making the game for console and either making a crappy pc port, or toning down the gameplay to it's detriment. Some games manage to keep a good line between the two (Example; Battlefield 2 on PC, and Battlefield; Bad Company which was essentially Fisher Price Battlefield). Some games don't, like Call of Duty, which started to go down the crapper when it was decide consolers needed to play it too.
Or Thief "reloading-every-2-steps" 3. Though the funniest thing still were the effects being stopped once out of sight and continued when the player has returned ... it just doesn't feel right if a candle you put out before slaying through a castle is still in the process of being put out when you return with all the loot there is some 20mins later. When it came to physics this was even funnier ... throw something down somewhere quickly run around the corner, then walk towards where the object should have impacted and see it all of a sudden popping out of the sky and slamming into the ground ... if that aint realistic I don't know what is.


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 Post subject:Re: I'm Back!
PostPosted:Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:01 am 
Literally Nine
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Speaking of Thief.

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 Post subject:Re: I'm Back!
PostPosted:Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:20 am 
 

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Speaking of Thief.
Yeah I'm still mourning over the loss of Looking Glass :/. Hope the new owners of Eidos (SquareEnix) will make some drastic changes to the company, kick out the douchebags responsible for the companys epic fuckup and restore the former glory of the series.


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 Post subject:Re: I'm Back!
PostPosted:Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:19 pm 
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FO2's "morality" system: Karma, which was good/evil actions, and location-based reputations, which were good/evil actions regarding a specific location.

FO3's "morality" system: Karma, which was good/evil actions.

The crucial difference is with reputations; in FO2, I could, for example, go on a massacre'ing spree in New Reno. My karma would plummet (for murdering all those innocents) as would my New Reno reputation (for murdering all those New Reno residents). But my reputation in Vault City (for example) would be unaffected (because no one I killed in New Reno was a resident of Vault City). Most citizens of Vault City (actually, I think all of them) will be unaffected in the way they act towards me.

FO3, on the other hand, suffers from Oblivion's telepathic guards problem (which was one of the things I worried about when I heard that FO3 was being built on Oblivion's engine). If I go and kill everyone in Megaton, and then nuke it, my Karma's going to hit rock-bottom. But people in Rivet City (for example), who somehow, automagically, know that I was the one who murdered + nuked everyone in Megaton, and will treat me accordingly.

Not to mention that both games are grossly abusing the word "Karma".

-- Griffinhart

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 Post subject:Re: I'm Back!
PostPosted:Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:11 pm 
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Well, it's not only that. FO1 in fact didn't even have that. But there were some situations in FO1 & 2 where the "good/evil" solution wasn't as clearcut (though there was usually a "best" solution but it wasn't necessarily something your character could achieve depending on their skills or previous actions).

Also, not that everyone in FO3 is psychic, only ThreeDog. He knows what you've done and tells everyone over the radio and that's how they find out. :)

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 Post subject:Re: I'm Back!
PostPosted:Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:18 pm 
 

Joined:Mon May 29, 2006 6:11 pm
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Hmmm I really need to finish that game. And by finish, I mean do the damn thing over again 'cus my saves went off to Neverland.

I could never get more than 20 hours into the game or so. It digs at me that I know even with a walkthrough and painstaking planning, i'm still not going to see everything in one playthrough.


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 Post subject:Re: I'm Back!
PostPosted:Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:58 pm 
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Also, not that everyone in FO3 is psychic, only ThreeDog. He knows what you've done and tells everyone over the radio and that's how they find out. :)
Not really, actually.

He never is really clear on what goes down in the Blood Ties quest, nor does he ever have anything good to say about your actions regarding the Tenpenny Tower quest.

-- Griffinhart

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 Post subject:Re: I'm Back!
PostPosted:Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:16 am 
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Actually 'The Pitt' was a pretty good expansion, you can be the goo.. erm waityou steal a baby.. okay then you can be the ba... erm wait they are developing the cure. Well you can be bad.. just kill everyone yes!

No spoliers below (unless your amazing at reading between the lines).
Needless to say it nothing but a messy grey blob of grey area. On one hand your doing the wrong thing, but the right thing.. but not maybe not since there is no proof that is the right thing (since nothing may actually come from it), where on the other hand you have the other people who are not good but they are doing something good and already have a head start at it but also nothing may come from that either. In the end I didn't think anybody but the bad people had any chance of actually doing the thing they were trying to do.

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