Ferrous Moon ::Quick Poll, what religion is everybody?

Fate, or the pre-knowledge of God, doesn't interfere with free will. It's a bit hard to get your head around, so an analogy which I was given by a good friend of mine may help here:

My sister loves chocolate. My sister hates cheese. If I offer her a piece of chocolate, and a piece of cheese, I know she will choose the chocolate. In no way have I interfered with her free will, I just know what she'll do.

Well, they're both basically the same thing in the end, aren't they? You are fated to one path, as it were, because that is the path that you are going to choose.

I'm talking about wars being fought over religious beliefs

Especially things like euthanasia really worry me. By disallowing it by law your not just stopping people from taking their own lives(which apparently isn't theirs as they don't get to decide when to end it), but also prolonging their suffering(both physically and mentally). I just don't see why people think they have the right to decide about another humans life. If there is a medical or psychological reason to doubt a person is fit to decide about his or her life, ok. If not, i don't see why that person can't decide to end it. Now i understand that this is not just related to religion, but also to general oppinions and beliefs. However it can't be denied that this has strong links to certain religions.

Now i'd like to know how you people feel about these points. Do you agree or disagree and why.

Quote:

I'm talking about wars being fought over religious beliefs

Religions don't cause wars. Wars are fought with religion as an excuse, atheists kill people too, etc. etc.

Author:	Gwanky [Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Quick Poll, what religion is everybody?
Prophile, thank you for making that point. Allow me to say this, you may cite the Crusades or 9\11 suicide bombings as examples of how religion is bad. I in turn will cite the killing of Eastern Orthodox Ministers in the USSR simply because they were Eastern Orthodox Ministers and not atheists is a terrible thing to do, more so actually because as atheists they lack a belief in the after-life, so murder seems so much more final. Also, there is no advantage to believing in fate because it makes it impossible to own your actions. Try to believe in free will, and lets say you die and go to heaven, hell, or purgatory and find out there was fate, then you can always say, "While I was fated to believe in free will."

Author:	prophile [Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Quick Poll, what religion is everybody?
Fate, or the pre-knowledge of God, doesn't interfere with free will. It's a bit hard to get your head around, so an analogy which I was given by a good friend of mine may help here: My sister loves chocolate. My sister hates cheese. If I offer her a piece of chocolate, and a piece of cheese, I know she will choose the chocolate. In no way have I interfered with her free will, I just know what she'll do.

Author:	Rickton [Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Quick Poll, what religion is everybody?
Quote: Fate, or the pre-knowledge of God, doesn't interfere with free will. It's a bit hard to get your head around, so an analogy which I was given by a good friend of mine may help here: My sister loves chocolate. My sister hates cheese. If I offer her a piece of chocolate, and a piece of cheese, I know she will choose the chocolate. In no way have I interfered with her free will, I just know what she'll do. That's not really fate though. What you're talking about is Omniscience.

Author:	prophile [Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Quick Poll, what religion is everybody?
Well, they're both basically the same thing in the end, aren't they? You are fated to one path, as it were, because that is the path that you are going to choose.

Author:	Rickton [Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Quick Poll, what religion is everybody?
Quote: Well, they're both basically the same thing in the end, aren't they? You are fated to one path, as it were, because that is the path that you are going to choose. But "fate" implies it was someone or something else doing the choosing for you.

Ferrous Moon http://www.ferrousmoon.com:80/forums/

Quick Poll, what religion is everybody? http://www.ferrousmoon.com:80/forums/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1034	Page 6 of 6

Author:	prophile [Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Quick Poll, what religion is everybody?
Then fate, by that definition is incorrect. It is precisely the opposite - it's our free will which causes things to happen the way they do.

Author:	Holland_is_mad [Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Quick Poll, what religion is everybody?
I'm an atheist that believes anything is possible(though not everything is equally likely based on what we know today). There is a word for that, but i can't remember atm. Anyways i do accept and believe that a god or multiple gods can exist. However i do not currently find this a very likely concept. Just as much as i accept and believe that invisible flying pink unicorns could be all around us right now. Though again i do not currently find this a very likely concept. Swordfishdata and other atheists that have posted in this thread have pretty much summed up what i too think of modern and ancient religions already. I'd like to go into another area that hasn't really been touched here yet though and that's the consequenses of religion in general and specific religions. I know this could result in a flame war, but i'm an extreme supporter of freedom of speech and i'd like to use that right regardless of what other people think of my believes/oppinions. I'd like to start by saying that i have nothing against people believing other things then me. Including the existance of a god or multiple gods. What i DO have something against is that belief resulting in bad consequences for me. Now i'm not talking about church bells ringing on early sunday morning or missionaries bugging me by trying to convert me to their religion. Those things are annoying, but nothing compared to the bigger issues. I'm talking about wars being fought over religious beliefs and, more close to home, laws being introduced based on religious beliefs. Lucky for me The Netherlands is a REALLY free country, so there are hardly any laws limiting freedom beyond the absolutely necessary. However there are enough examples of european countries' governments and the USA's government limiting there people's freedom with laws that clearly have a religious background. I find it really worrysome that peoples lives and freedoms are being controlled and limited by laws that originated in religious beliefs. No matter if the majority of the people in those countries believe that these laws do no wrong, they still affect people who do not share those beliefs aswell. Also they don't always have the best result for the country as a whole either. Especially things like euthanasia really worry me. By disallowing it by law your not just stopping people from taking their own lives(which apparently isn't theirs as they don't get to decide when to end it), but also prolonging their suffering(both physically and mentally). I just don't see why people think they have the right to decide about another humans life. If there is a medical or psychological reason to doubt a person is fit to decide about his or her life, ok. If not, i don't see why that person can't decide to end it. Now i understand that this is not just related to religion, but also to general oppinions and beliefs. However it can't be denied that this has strong links to certain religions. Now i'd like to know how you people feel about these points. Do you agree or disagree and why.

Author:	Rickton [Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Quick Poll, what religion is everybody?
Quote: I'm talking about wars being fought over religious beliefs Religions don't cause wars. Wars are fought with religion as an excuse, atheists kill people too, etc. etc. Quote: Especially things like euthanasia really worry me. By disallowing it by law your not just stopping people from taking their own lives(which apparently isn't theirs as they don't get to decide when to end it), but also prolonging their suffering(both physically and mentally). I just don't see why people think they have the right to decide about another humans life. If there is a medical or psychological reason to doubt a person is fit to decide about his or her life, ok. If not, i don't see why that person can't decide to end it. Now i understand that this is not just related to religion, but also to general oppinions and beliefs. However it can't be denied that this has strong links to certain religions. Now i'd like to know how you people feel about these points. Do you agree or disagree and why. Probably because "euthanasia" is just so fun to say (really sends a shiver up your spine, don't it?) that doctors would be prescribing it left and right.

Author:	eddieringle [Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Quick Poll, what religion is everybody?
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/ If you haven't seen it... first part is all about religion. It's really only based on controversial theories, so you don't have to believe it. And don't yell at me for it, ChaosR made me watch it. Oh... and wasn't this topic suppose to be a... quick poll?

Author:	FinalWarrior [Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Quick Poll, what religion is everybody?
Quote: Quote: I'm talking about wars being fought over religious beliefs Religions don't cause wars. Wars are fought with religion as an excuse, atheists kill people too, etc. etc. Had to say this, but you'll note that Holland never said anything about religions causing wars. He said wars have been fought over religious beliefs (i.e., a difference in religious beliefs, or some crackpot's "kill ppl in teh name of [Deity]!"). Semantics, yo. -- Griffinhart

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