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Quick Poll, what religion is everybody?
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Author:  Azurozeta [Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:05 am ]
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Spare my bad english, but i'm pretty confused with miah post >.< some part of it is quite interesting although i don't get it at all. I do, however, have some words for blaike.

First of all, it is why God is called omnipotent that He can make impossible possible.

What make you so sure the original sin never happened?

Old testament isn't false. Which part of it false? Jesus come to this world to fulfill what was written in old testament, hence new testament.

Ever felt guilty? I had. That's what would happen when you make mistake. Even when you want to make sin, your heart pound so hard. You can say it adrenalin rush or some kind of biological reaction, but i say it that God want to warn us not doing what we shouldn't. Or in some event, He pull some string that we must try hard in order to do sin. When i wanted to cheat, no body give me the answer, or suddenly the watcher turn his eyes on me. Of course, if i try harder, i can still cheat.

God can only interfere like that regarding human free will. Of course He can send His angel to point sword at you thus stopping you from doing sin, but it will put no meaning for free will in the first place.

So, where's the love? A damage in the body is not so important before God. After all, it's only a temporary shell which our soul dwell. Our soul, however, is very important. God sent His son for that very reason, rescuing our soul from the bound of sin. And if you still questioning God's love, no matter how evil you are, no matter how many times you made the same sins, God always accept you should you turn yourself to Him. Imagine someone stole from you. On first attempt, you might forgive him. On second attempt? How about on hundred attempt? Still willing to forgive him? God will, hence He get the title all-loving.
Author:  Blaike [Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Spare my bad english, but i'm pretty confused with miah post >.< some part of it is quite interesting although i don't get it at all. I do, however, have some words for blaike.

First of all, it is why God is called omnipotent that He can make impossible possible.

What make you so sure the original sin never happened?

Old testament isn't false. Which part of it false? Jesus come to this world to fulfill what was written in old testament, hence new testament.

Ever felt guilty? I had. That's what would happen when you make mistake. Even when you want to make sin, your heart pound so hard. You can say it adrenalin rush or some kind of biological reaction, but i say it that God want to warn us not doing what we shouldn't. Or in some event, He pull some string that we must try hard in order to do sin. When i wanted to cheat, no body give me the answer, or suddenly the watcher turn his eyes on me. Of course, if i try harder, i can still cheat.

God can only interfere like that regarding human free will. Of course He can send His angel to point sword at you thus stopping you from doing sin, but it will put no meaning for free will in the first place.

So, where's the love? A damage in the body is not so important before God. After all, it's only a temporary shell which our soul dwell. Our soul, however, is very important. God sent His son for that very reason, rescuing our soul from the bound of sin. And if you still questioning God's love, no matter how evil you are, no matter how many times you made the same sins, God always accept you should you turn yourself to Him. Imagine someone stole from you. On first attempt, you might forgive him. On second attempt? How about on hundred attempt? Still willing to forgive him? God will, hence He get the title all-loving.
Seriously? Do you know that the Church itself states that the Old Testament is to be taken metaphorically... not literally.

1. God created the world in 6 days
-- Modern technology proves that the world was not, infact, made in 6 days. If you'd like me to further elaborate on that, I will

2. Someone works on Sabbath; God tells Moses to have him stoned to death
-- A little controversial to this 'all-loving' image? I mean perhaps God only destroyed his physical shell... but does a person condemned to death by God himself have a soul that will go to heaven?

3. God kills an entire city for being gay [Sodom and Gomorrah]
-- You'd think that God would be a little more forgiving of his own creation. Fire and brimstone... even turns one of his loyal followers into a pillar of salt

4. According to the Old Testament, the world is currently 6000 years old. Similar to point number 1, I feel like this is somewhat unnecessary to explain.


First of all, it is why God is called omnipotent that He can make impossible possible.

Can God make a rock too heavy for himself to lift?
If he can, then He is not all-powerful because he cannot lift that rock
If he can't, then He is not all-powerful because he cannot create it.

Indeed, I have felt guilty, yet even though we can't come up with a logical reason for emotions, does not mean we have to point to God. History repeats itself. Natural disasters were always explained by mythology in older civilizations [such as the Aztecs], but now we know better. Try explaining to someone 30 centuries ago that hurricanes happen because of low air-pressure... they'll have no idea what you're talking about.

You use the idea of forgiveness as a direct correlation to love. It's not the same. By your definition, if I forgive everyone who transgresses me I am all-loving, which is simply not true.

Argue with me: God will watch as an infant is brutally raped, defenestrated, torn limb from limb, branded, castrated, cooked and eaten without doing anything. For arguments, sake, I could do that right now and God will not stop me. In Heaven, this child will look at God and say, "You let this happen to me? In this body you have given me, I've felt nothing but pain, and you say you love me." I go on to be unpunished for my crime and winning the lottery. God has the power to stop me, but doesn't. Why?
Author:  FinalWarrior [Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:14 am ]
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Omnipotence is a paradox in and of itself, which is why the Church argues that, y'know, God's plan is God's, and we, as inferior Humans, need not know how He works.

I can't believe in a system that won't tell me how stuff works, 'cuz then that system could just come up with some crazy bull and say that it works because it just does. I'm too much of a realist/pessimist/whatever to take things at face value.

-- Griffinhart

PS. Ever notice how, whenever God needed His dirty work to get done, He'd either have another Human do it or He'd send an Angel? Motherf'ing need a foo' dead? Call up an Angel. Need an entire army slain in the middle of the night? Send an Angel. Wanna turn a city to salt? Angel at your service.

No wonder Angels are so damn badass.
Author:  Miah [Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:36 am ]
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I'd do with just the flaming sword. I'd be happy with that.

So long as there wasn't paperwork for it. That would really bite.
Author:  ChaosR [Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:58 pm ]
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You know what I hate about Christians, most of them are so damn sure they are right. They are to blinded by society to see what the bible really says.
Quote:
Motion cannot pass through an infinite amount of time.
Scientifically, and out of context, it can.
Author:  Darkknight512 [Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:16 pm ]
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I'm one that doesn't like religion, what good has it done for the world? Sure it gives something for people to work for but most of those things have caused war in the past, and what bothers me most is that no one has really resolved those issues, I'm not saying that religion is totally bad and anyone that believes in one is bad but when people get really crazy about religion it gets really annoying.
Author:  krageon [Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:18 am ]
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I believe that any religion propagating conflict (or that has conflict being propagated by its followerd) is a religion that is either false, or has been misunderstood by its followers. When you look at religions, most of them can be used as an excuse to either curse (hell, and the equivalent in Islam) or hurt people (popular examples include holy crusades and Jihad).
I believe that even when that particualr religion was founded (because lets face it, the books where written by humans somewhere in the history of man) the only idea that the founder had in mind was to minimize the suffering on earth. Some people see a religion that allows or rewards conversion as an excuse to forcefully make people follow it (A lot of parents do this to their children, and I think its a shame. I'm not saying all do, however). For example Jehovas witnesses that come bother you on Sundays (They can get very annoying and opressing when they sense you are too weak to oppose them, eg old or sick people), or most other vanilla followers of various religions (again, I'm talking about the religions which we see around us the most these days, which are the various versions of christianity and Islam.)
On the other hand, I also think that they can be a very good idea for some people, giving them hope and a purpose in their lives, it merely depends on how you think you should interpret the bible (or the Qu'ran, or whatever way you should spell it).

Religions unknown to me I cannot talk about, although I do tend to like Buddhism or Taoism. Myself, I follow my own version of religion, and if anyone is interested I could elaborate on this.

Cheers ;)

[Edit] Some of these sentences may be slightly less then perfect, I apologise for this ;) I wrote it during ICT class
Author:  ChaosR [Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:47 pm ]
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Quote:
I'm one that doesn't like religion, what good has it done for the world? Sure it gives something for people to work for but most of those things have caused war in the past, and what bothers me most is that no one has really resolved those issues, I'm not saying that religion is totally bad and anyone that believes in one is bad but when people get really crazy about religion it gets really annoying.
Couldn't have said that better.
Author:  Blaike [Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:56 pm ]
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Quote:
You know what I hate about Christians, most of them are so damn sure they are right. They are to blinded by society to see what the bible really says.
Quote:
Motion cannot pass through an infinite amount of time.
Scientifically, and out of context, it can.
What I mean to say is that if there was no 'beginning' then time extends into infinity. If motion continues through an infinite amount of time, it will never reach us. Movement has reached us, so there is a beginning.
Quote:
I'm one that doesn't like religion, what good has it done for the world? Sure it gives something for people to work for but most of those things have caused war in the past, and what bothers me most is that no one has really resolved those issues, I'm not saying that religion is totally bad and anyone that believes in one is bad but when people get really crazy about religion it gets really annoying.
I think religion uses the idea of punishment/reward to manipulate people to follow whatever they consider a good moral code. I'm not saying it's the best way to do it, but effective (at least it used to be when people were gullible).
Author:  ChaosR [Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:55 am ]
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I have to point out something though, Darkknight512:

"I'm one that doesn't like land. what good has it done for the world? Sure it gives something for people to work for but most of those things have caused war in the past, and what bothers me most is that no one has really resolved those issues, I'm not saying that land is totally bad and anyone that lives on it is bad but when people get really crazy about land it gets really annoying."
Author:  PH33R [Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Poll, what religion is everybody?
To live your life by a book written by man, you will surely burn in the cold depths of hell.
Author:  FinalWarrior [Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Quote:
I have to point out something though, Darkknight512:

"I'm one that doesn't like land. what good has it done for the world? Sure it gives something for people to work for but most of those things have caused war in the past, and what bothers me most is that no one has really resolved those issues, I'm not saying that land is totally bad and anyone that lives on it is bad but when people get really crazy about land it gets really annoying."
Nowadays it's less about land and more about money.

Of course, now you're just promoting Communism. :D

-- Griffinhart
Author:  Coritani [Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:39 pm ]
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Fairly staunch Atheist. There's too many logical fallacies involving religion and there's also biblical contradictions.
Author:  Gwanky [Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Quote:
Gwanky, If you look at the context of my comments, at no point do I refer to either the Big Bang or Evolution as frightening concepts. They do, however, point away from the Bible at a universe with no need of a cosmic hand to keep it in balance. They also blatantly contradict the Bible. Anyone who thinks that Science and Genesis can peacefully coexist needs to study both a bit more.

That being said, how does one pick and choose bits of a religion, each piece just as unprovable as the next, and say "This one is true, this one is not?" How can the Bible be wrong about the actual creation account, and yet remain correct concerning the existence of heaven and hell? If God used natural, observable means to create the Earth, why bother with supernatural, unobservable means for heaven and hell?

I've never meant to use the Church as an argument against the veracity of religion. Truth is invariably independent of institutions. Just because one group says something does not make it so. Being provable via scientific methods does.

The amount of hype about both The DaVinci Code and Angels And Demons bothers me. Both of them state explicitly that they are meant to be taken as fiction, and yet people thought they were true. Just another clue that people are gullible and incredibly susceptible to emotional manipulation, especially when taken in groups.
Just so you know many newer theists will tell you that much of the Old Testament is symbolic. Basically, if God said "I made Big Bang happen by slamming together massive amounts of matter." people would give that prophet a blank stare and move on. However God still managed to communicate his miracles by simplifying it, his ability to create life from nothing, his ability to create a universe from nothing.
Author:  Rickton [Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Poll, what religion is everybody?
And then if you look at the creation story it happens in pretty much the same order as evolution...sea creatures, land creatures, human beings. I don't understand the intense polarization religion brings up with people.
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