I apologize for implying that you lack intelligence, I was a bit harsh in my final sentence. My parents were missionaries in the Philippines, and both of them are very intelligent. One of my younger brothers recently graduated from Word Of Life Bible Institute in Argentina, and is planning on returning to South America as a missionary. He also is very intelligent, with a talent for picking up languages that makes me sick.

However, in order for one to believe in God does require a certain degree of self-delusion. Religion has had to make concessions to inarguable scientific fact for centuries, from Galileo and Copernicus to Darwin and Hawking. Those who accept science and still cling to such niceties as "The six days of creation are just euphemisms for eons," and "God used evolution as a tool for creation" are merely trying to put a familiar and comforting wrapping on a new and frightening world that they find themselves unable or unwilling to accept.

You say that you have nothing against atheists, and yet you say in the same sentence that you dislike anyone who tells you that your religion is wrong. Unfortunately, any self-respecting atheist will tell you exactly that. The entire concept of atheism is that your(or anyone's) religion, your Christ, your Allah, that which you have based your life upon does not exist. I can certainly understand why this is offensive to you. I do not apologize for offending anyone, since the truth always hurts.

In this case, the truth is that what a person believes doesn't matter in the slightest. All that matters is what they do. Religions (especially the variety of "Christian" ones) kick around a lot of arguements concerning "salvation through works" or "salvation through faith," etc. Atheism says "bugger all that, whom have you helped?" I don't care if birth control is anathema to the Catholics, give the Africans condoms!

You say that reason without spirituality is not good for anyone. I question your definition of "spirituality," and instead propose that reason without purpose is not good for anyone. Does man need a set of guidelines from on high to give him purpose? Does man need to live in fear of an invisible man in the sky, who will sit in judgement at the end of his days, welcoming him into paradise, or damning him to eternal suffering? A sufficiently developed, mature person should be able to see the potential effects of his actions on his peers and children, and be able to make moral judgments based on those effects. Sir Francis Bacon said it very well when he stated, "Atheism leaves a man to sense, to philosophy, to natural piety, to laws, to reputation, all of which may be guides to an outward moral virtue, though religion were not, but superstition dismounts all these, and erecteth an absolute monarchy in the minds of men."

So... I take it no one here is utterly and entirely against the idea of religions like I am? I dunno, it just seems that all religions are institutions of Man, and since Man is inherently imperfect, are not all religions therefore imperfect? Similarly, one could argue that Man is inherently corrupt, and therefore any religion established by man is corrupt.

Personally, I believe that you should be able to believe what you want, how you want, without needing to explain yourself to others. You shouldn't have to worship a certain way, practice certain things, or say certain prayers. If you believe in a God, an Allah, a Zeus, an Odin, or heck, even a Flying Spaghetti Monster or an Invisible Pink Unicorn, that should be enough. You shouldn't have to do anything but believe, because that's what faith is, right? Belief?

-- Griffinhart

PS. And to answer the actual question of religion, I'm closest to Agnostic, leaning Atheist. I'm on the fence when it comes to God (or a God-like being), but really... if God were just and merciful, I don't think "He" would have any of us suffer living.

Well said.

To Swordfish Data. Evolution, and the Big bang are neither new nor frieghtening conecpts for me. Being born in 1991 and attending public school I learned both of these concepts even from a young age. Darwinian evolution makes sense, there is evidence for it, however it still doesn't contridictate the bible. There are many religious people that still take creationism at face value according to Genesis. However there is also a new wave that are willing to accept scientifict fact.

Here are some points that people make to "Discredit" the exsistence of God, by attacking His church.

-Notice how His image is similar to Zeus's, this is because the Church wanted to ease the transition for Pagans.
There is little to no church sanctioned art of God, simply because God is incoperal infact the image of God as an old powerful man is the exact oppisote, when the joined the church they simply retained old ideas.
-What about the acts of atrocity commited by the Church in His name such as the Crusades, witch hunts, Inquisition, God clearly cannot be benevolent and omnipotent.
Wrong, the Bible (Deuteronomy 30:11 ) states that God has given humans free will to do good or evil and we shall receive our just desserts in death.

-Anything from the DaVinci Code or Angels and Demons
These are both great fun books, and I actually questioned my faith for a good 30 minutes after reading them. However after doing some independent research these books are both based off of outdated information that has been proven wrong, and the author has even taken artistic licsense with these books.

ChaosR says (4:15 PM):
oh, for now my religion includes no religion

Gwanky, If you look at the context of my comments, at no point do I refer to either the Big Bang or Evolution as frightening concepts. They do, however, point away from the Bible at a universe with no need of a cosmic hand to keep it in balance. They also blatantly contradict the Bible. Anyone who thinks that Science and Genesis can peacefully coexist needs to study both a bit more.

That being said, how does one pick and choose bits of a religion, each piece just as unprovable as the next, and say "This one is true, this one is not?" How can the Bible be wrong about the actual creation account, and yet remain correct concerning the existence of heaven and hell? If God used natural, observable means to create the Earth, why bother with supernatural, unobservable means for heaven and hell?

I've never meant to use the Church as an argument against the veracity of religion. Truth is invariably independent of institutions. Just because one group says something does not make it so. Being provable via scientific methods does.

The amount of hype about both The DaVinci Code and Angels And Demons bothers me. Both of them state explicitly that they are meant to be taken as fiction, and yet people thought they were true. Just another clue that people are gullible and incredibly susceptible to emotional manipulation, especially when taken in groups.

@Final Warrior
Have you read the barber story? If you haven't i'll write it for ya. Sorry for my bad english thought.

A man going to a barber to get his hair cut. While being haircut, he question the barber.
"Do you believe in God?"

In which the barber reply, "No i don't. If God really exist, then why did He let people suffer, let them in pain, sickness and starving to dead?"

After thinking for a moment, the man say, "Then i too, don't believe that barbers exist"

"What the fuck? Then who am i, cutting your hair professionally right now? Am i not a barber?"

The man then point out to the window, where another man standing on the road while his hair is in total disarray.

"If barbers do exist, then why there's still people out there that have trouble with his hair?"

"That's because he doesn't want to step in to my shop and have his hair cut! If he does, i would gladly shave his hair and make it looks cool."

The man replies, "Then the same thing goes with God. He's never wanted people to suffer. But people refuse to come to Him and seek His aid. He can't do nothing but honor their free will."

----------------

Maybe you've heard another version of this. Seek God and find the truth about Him. Seek God and you'll see His miracle. I don't know about other people, but from my birth, i have encountered many problems. Some are good enough to warrant for my death, having glass cut my vein and all, but i still live today, thanks to Him. That's why i devote my life for Him, because i owe Him my life too many times.

When i WANT something, i pray to Him, but sometimes He don't give me anything. For a moment, i might be disappointed for that, but then i was able to let it go.

When i NEED something, i pray to Him. At first, nothing changed. But when the time make it to become so crucial, His help always come, enabling me to get over it.

Life is a choice, God grant us free will. I don't know what would you make for your choice, but i choose to serve God in life and death.

I don't have much time, but I'll enter the discussion later: for now, I'll just say that I started out Presbyterian, and over the last three years or so have progressed from there to agnostic and finally to atheist, which is where I am now.

Hmm... I'm torn between Creationism and Evolutionism (thats right, right?), but I'm still Christian. My mom said that you can't be both, but she agreed with me that humans have no idea what is what, and that you can fit some concepts of Evolutionism in with Creationism, and vice versa. That's my second bit.

@Azurozeta:

Nonono, you misread me. If there's truly a merciful God in the first place, IMO, he wouldn't have created us in the first place to suffer living, and then have to go through the whole Purgatory thing as well.</goth>

-- Griffinhart

PS. According to that story, God's like a placebo... if you believe in it, it will work. If you don't, then it won't. Well, it might, but you won't believe that it was the cause.

Like they say in Where the Red Fern Grows, you have to meet God half way. If I want something, I make sure I work for it, usually I reach my goal without asking for help, but I'm sure he doesn't help you with EVERYTHING you do.

Placebos don't work on polio.

...

Just sayin'

If you only take the bits of Genesis that fit, only take the bits of Evolutionary Theory that fit, and state them in a certain way, you can fit the concepts together. But if you take either one in its entirety, they don't fit at all. Like I said before, anyone who can honestly think they can play well together needs to study both of them a bit more.
This is true... The effects of God are probably comparable to sugar pills, chiropractics, Buddhism, and diet pills. Or using massive doses of Vitamin C to cure polio.

@Miah: Or most STDs.

-- Griffinhart

I wouldn't know. I'm immortal.

I've had the flu shot for the first time ever this year. Prior to that, I don't remember ever getting the flu. Ever.

I remember chicken pox. I was like, five. But that's about it.