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| VSEC Solvers, redux. http://www.ferrousmoon.com:80/forums/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=1801 |
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| Author: | Hawk_v3 [Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: VSEC Solvers, redux. |
Quote: What first one ?
Sorry, ignore that, I misinterpreted the pics.Quote: Hilarity.
So, what's happened wrong?
There's a bug here, alright. It actually makes this system easier for you. /me rages |
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| Author: | mackaybre [Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: VSEC Solvers, redux. |
K, so in that example, again, a 3-click solution set (i'd love to see the 7-click ones if you can manage). Even Fraps it up so Miah gets what he was asking for, too. B1, A2, B4 which was OFF, ON, ON. Keep 'em coming, while I try to get my Onlink reinstalled and catch up with a new profile. |
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| Author: | Miah [Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: VSEC Solvers, redux. |
This bug both helps and hurts. If helps you on some grids and makes it difficult to explain what the rules actually are. Incidentally, it's a one-character fix. Figures. |
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| Author: | Switch [Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: VSEC Solvers, redux. |
It seems to be bugging out and acting like V2 sometimes for me. |
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| Author: | Hawk_v3 [Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: VSEC Solvers, redux. |
Quote: This bug both helps and hurts. If helps you on some grids and makes it difficult to explain what the rules actually are.
I thought it was a bit random.
Incidentally, it's a one-character fix. Figures. |
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| Author: | Hawk_v3 [Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: VSEC Solvers, redux. |
Well, I found a Vsec 3.0 in the latest alpha. I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be this easy... X= light on O= light off. Start: Code: XXOX
XOOO
OOOO
XOOO
With edge wrapping, the button to click is the topleft hand corner.So I click it, and it disarms. What happened to this evil, hard to crack system? |
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| Author: | hexagon [Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: VSEC Solvers, redux. |
I agree, it is much simpler in this latest release, every time i try i can disarm it, ranging from one click to seven clicks, it works every with the solver, maybe this is bug, ... again. I,m waiting for Youtube to finish uploding a video of the thing, then i'll post it. |
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| Author: | Tycho [Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: VSEC Solvers, redux. |
@hexagon: Nice userbar. :3 |
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| Author: | hexagon [Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: VSEC Solvers, redux. |
@ Tycho : Thank You. As far as i can figure it out for the vsec 3.0 ( at least for release 45, admited buggy ), the rules are as folow : click on lighted squares until the penultimate where you press a darked square, and the last is also lighted. So, as a general example: for a 3-click-solve: Light-Dark-Light for a 4-click-solve: Light-Light-Dark-Light ... and to infinity and beyond ( or 11 clicks ) All the solving clicks are taken from the solver i posted earlyer in the thread. An example from the game: This is from a puzzle with a 5-click solution ![]() This is the puzzle that was presented when i entered the console for an ACS ![]() This is what the solver told to be the right combination and the order that i clicked ![]() The first click - On a lighted square ![]() The second click - a lighted square ![]() Third click - a lighted square also ![]() The PENULTIMATE square, click four - a dark square ![]() The final click, click five - a light square, obvious ![]() And of course... Nirvana Just as an aditional note, i did encounter a three-click solution where all squares where lighted before i pressed them. |
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| Author: | mackaybre [Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: VSEC Solvers, redux. |
Maybe hex; however, I completed a 5-move solution one where it was OFF OFF OFF OFF ON (Dark Dark Dark Dark Light). Lights were initially on in {0,8,0,0} or 0000, 1000, 0000, 0000, meaning that by regular Light's Out rules you had to push That light and every light around it. I had {A1, B2, A3, D2, A2} as the sequence, which was OFF, OFF, OFF, ON when checking just before pushing it. I had been working on possible factors such as which column you push in which order, which row (same), the number of lights on including the target square when considering when to push it... Since we know the last light pushed will always be ON and surrounded by 4 other ONs, can't we sort of Toss out the final one for determining rules? Hex, have you run across any patterns multiple times (and had the opportunity to try different orders of the solution set) ? Also, any 7-move ones? What about the lockouts? D'you have any patterns and orders of clicking for times you've locked the VSEC 3? EDIT:----------- In case it's not apparent, I'm using Decimal conversions of the binary rows and grid coordinates because i'm too lazy to screenshot and upload. Here's a 7 move pattern I locked out: Pattern: {13,9,8,8} = {1101,1001,1000,1000} Solution Set is: 7 moves {9,3,12,8}. I successfully pushed {A1, C2, B3, D1, A4} and got locked out when I subsequently tried D2. The other option for the solution at that point was to push A3, which I ignored because I was trying to test the 'not in same row' idea. From a # of lights on perspective A3 and D2 were identical choices. |
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| Author: | hexagon [Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: VSEC Solvers, redux. |
I know, i know, my theory is rather simplist compared to you'res, i just captured what i saw as an obvious rule. Quote: Hex, have you run across any patterns multiple times (and had the opportunity to try different orders of the solution set) ? Also, any 7-move ones? What about the lockouts? D'you have any patterns and orders of clicking for times you've locked the VSEC 3?
Aparently (now i question my self) i never bodered to document some failed attempts.I did a many 7-ones and i even managed a couple of 9-ones, but on those i tend to screw up the order in which to push the lights. Anyway, i think that until we have a release with a good working vsec (without any bugs) we can't really figure the whole pattern out. |
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| Author: | Mursu [Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: VSEC Solvers, redux. |
IMHO it's quite pointless trying to figure out the pattern, since the VSEC 3.0 is pretty damn buggy and acts like a 1.0 at times : p I have given it a try myself, and I _think_ I have found an universal pattern, but I can't say anything for sure until Miah fixes the thing. |
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| Author: | Hawk_v3 [Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: VSEC Solvers, redux. |
Well, I'm going to type up the Vsec 3's that I think weren't bugged, to provide more data for those wishing to test out any theories. I've disproved all my own theories so far. 'm going to do them in X and O form and will show each step and the change, as well as LOCKED if the step failed. These are all from the Ferrous Moon ACS. Key: X=light on, O=light off. I will give the co-ordinates of the button I pressed. Code: Vsec 3 No. 1
ABCD
1 XOXO
2 XOOO
3 OOXX
4 OOXX Button pressed D4.
ABCD
1 XOXX
2 XOOO
3 OOXO
4 XOOO Button pressed B2
ABCD
1 XXXX
2 OXXO
3 OXXO
4 XOOO Button pressed D1.LOCKED.
Code: Vsec 3 No. 2
ABCD
1 OOOO
2 XXOO
3 OOXX
4 XOOO Button pressed A4.
ABCD
1 XOOO
2 XXOO
3 XOXX
4 OXOX Button pressed B3. (Here I screwed up the method, and pressed a button that didn't go towards solving the pattern.)
ABCD
1 XOOO
2 XOOO
3 OXOX
4 OOOX Button pressed A3. LOCKED
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| Author: | Switch [Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: VSEC Solvers, redux. |
Hawk, you've been pressing lit buttons I see. Here is a conversation I had with Miah, which I think shows that lit buttons shouldn't be able to be pressed: Miah to Swi1ch; grey square does... nothing? Swi1ch to Miah; nope Sw1ich to Miah; like V2 Miah to Swi1ch; Miah to Swi1ch; internal failure Swi1ch to Miah; blue squares respond Miah to Swi1ch; and they don't... lock? Swi1ch to Miah; Nope Miah to Swi1ch; internal failure |
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| Author: | Hawk_v3 [Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: VSEC Solvers, redux. |
*nods* Maih also mentioned something about a reverse lock. |
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